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Again, what was the last substantive book you read completely. Year please, or if it was a long time ago the decade would suffice. <BR> <BR>I personally don't believe you have read one in decades.
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TTTHTFAL
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That works for me. I'll guess that it was in the 1980's so from now on I'll just say 3 decades since you've read a book (its better to round up isn't it?) <BR> <BR>You had your chance to answer but in typical middle school fashion....
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Neal, produce on your own thread or TTTHTFAL !!!<img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/kiss.gif" border=0>
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<b><font color="0000ff">tell me how people gain eternal life. </font></b> <BR> <BR>You are making an assumption that we believe as you do about eternal life. <BR> <BR>Have we ever inferred that we believe in eternal life? Can't prove what we don't believe. No one can prove a negative. <BR> <BR>Can you prove there is a everlasting burning H#ll? Where is it? How do you know there is one? Shouldn't one investigate his future home, whether it be one or the other, to determine if you can afford to buy? <BR> <BR>BTW, can you prove there is an eternal life (excluding the Bible, which is the only book you've partially read--other than apologists' comments.
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I believe the Bible, that says if you believe in Jesus Christ you will have eternal life. <BR> <BR>The other side I have studied enough that I believe as the tSDAs do that H*ll is not everlasting conscious torture but until consumed and a permanent separation from God. The latter is the real H*ll, being separated from God permanently. <BR> <BR>You guys have critiqued me endlessly, all I'm asking for is what you have put in the place of the belief you are rejecting. You attend an SDA church regularly and claim that those you consider friends there respect, at least, your beliefs, as much as you reveal to them, which I am sure does not include some of what you espouse here or on Spectrum, especially on Spectrum, given their position on same sex marriage, their aggressive position, I might add, on same sex marriage. <BR> <BR>So, all I'm asking for is a gap in your critiquing me, and a positive statement about what you do believe or don't believe about the afterlife. Be brave and go on record, don't evade and hideout from these important answeres that you try, indirectly to destroy.
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<font color="0000ff">You guys have critiqued me endlessly....</font> <BR> <BR>What do you think is the reason? I didn't harass your brother endlessly. I didn't harass Hubb endlessly. I didn't harass Sorenson endlessly. Etc. Just you. Why is that? Its because you know just enough to continually misspeak and get yourself into trouble. You quote sources that are easily discredited. You haven't read the Bible yet make assertions as if you were a PhD Biblical scholar. You cut and paste more words than you write. You set up straw man arguments for us that are just too tempting to refrain from setting them on fire. You parrot the claims of apologists whose use of fallacious logic is too glaring to ignore. Shall I go on or do you get the idea? <BR> <BR><font color="0000ff">... all I'm asking for is what you have put in the place of the belief you are rejecting.</font> <BR> <BR>Why does a falsehood need to be replaced with anything other than than an acceptance of reality? The only reason I have rejected the claims of the genocidal maniacs and their descendants that wrote the Bible is because, based on indisputable evidence from archeology, history, astronomy, chemistry, anthropology, physics, engineering, biology, and linguistics it does not contain any truth other than some data on a few historical figures. The beliefs of these people are just what would be expected from a culture where the wheel barrow was the hot new technology. <BR> <BR>I trusted my parents and teachers and preachers and Ellen and the Bible to be telling me the honest truth. When I started studying for myself in my late teens I first discovered that Ellen, and by default her church, was making things up that did not fit what scripture taught. So I quit going to church and giving them my money. Then, after I was done with college I had time to study the Bible. I also studied the beliefs of nearby cultures and civilizations. Then I discovered that the english translations of the Bible are not just translated into english, but also translated into a christianized lingo. The archons of the gnostics become the rulers of the countries that killed Jesus in the NT. The young woman of Isaiah becomes a virgin. Paul's original "We speak of Sophia among the initiated" becomes a literalist christian "We speak wisdom among the perfected. <BR> <BR>IMO, this is the height of deceit. Most people do not have a career like mine which affords plenty of time to study things at a deep level. To blatantly mis-translate "in the beginning the gods" of Genesis 1:1 all the way to passages and even complete letters of Paul is to bear false witness in the extreme. To bear false witness is listed as an abomination 8 times as often as being queer. <BR> <BR><font color="0000ff">Be brave and go on record, don't evade and hideout from these important answeres that you try, indirectly to destroy.</font> <BR> <BR>You are completely full of it Bob. Nobody is evading or hiding out. You are projecting your own tactics onto others which is lunacy. <BR> <BR>Do you have any friends left in Wildwood? Looking for another country to escape to?
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Neal, I don't plan to go away as Don and Hubb have and create their own forum, and build a wall around it to keep the likes of you out. I plan to contend with the likes of you. I have private emails where Ryan refuses to deal with the likes of you, and essentially tells me I'm on my own even though he is working for the SDAs. Interesting. SDAs shun people, they don't want to get in the dirt, because they have too many flaws themselves that will come out. I haven't shied away from them. Don, Hubb, Ryan, Steve Mauro, Bill Sorenson, and possibly others, have shied away. BTW, all those named except Ryan, are hanging out over at Don and Hubbs protected forum that would never allow your type in. Ryan, has allowed your blatant atheism full sway. Maybe I agree that ATomorrow serves a good purpose. The contrast between truth and fiction, between truth and speculation. between the gospel and naturalism.
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Neal, if not hiding out, state what you have to offer someone reading, about the afterlife. Tell them the truth, maybe you already have, but John and Elaine haven't. You believe you are immortal through your children. At least you admit that is all there is. If the list of people I gave in the last post were here and not busy in their "walled fortress" to keep this sort of trash out, you would git your *** whipped in a way you would enjoy, eh???
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let "them" come back here and present their arguments for full consideration . <BR> <BR>the fact that they have walled off their discussions is a likely sign that (at least some of) their beliefs and arguments may not stand up to educated scrutiny. so they don't want real discussion. <BR> <BR>I had thought better of Don than that.
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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<font color="0000ff">you would git your *** whipped in a way you would enjoy, eh???</font> <BR> <BR>No. For example, Don, after studying the dome and waters above in Isaiah, the waters above in Psalms, and the second day of Genesis 1:6 came to the conclusion that I was correct. <BR> <BR>I am quite willing to be corrected and learn something new. I am very open to belief revision when shown evidence and a logically coherent conclusion. <BR> <BR>You just repeat yourself over and over and over and over with the same illogical, misleading, or even blatantly false statements. You have no interest in learning as you are certain, from what bits of your scripture you have read, that you already know everything. <BR> <BR>As far as Don & Hubb's site? I have less than zero interest in a site that is censored. I am an American and hold dear the right of free speech. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by neal on April 21, 2009)
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Then don't hold up individuals that do it, like you just did. You like to paint me as some sort of falsehood producer. Yet those you hold up as examples for me, are hiding out. For the reasons I give. <BR> <BR>The Emerging Church is full of the likes of you Neal. Browse it, you'll see, Evolution, Naturalism and Idolatry. All you have presented here. Some don't want to dirty their hands with stuff that is blatantly false and fiction.
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<font color="0000ff">Some don't want to dirty their hands with stuff that is blatantly false and fiction.</font> <BR> <BR>Then why are you still believing the Bible tales and going to church?
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Because I believe our bodies, our earth, our universe is consistent with what the Bible declares and nature shows us. I haven't seen or heard any better hope to hang onto. Your mocking words, don't hurt me, I think you are cruel to others, but that is your choice. To call someone sad and pathetic is inhumane and cruel. But I accept your choice to be that way.
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<font color="0000ff">Because I believe our bodies, our earth, our universe is consistent with what the Bible declares and nature shows us.</font> <BR> <BR>You are admitting to be deluded. <BR> <BR>You can fit 800,000 years of ice into a 6000 year timeline? <BR> <BR>Light that took 10 billion years to reach this earth into a 6000 year timeline? <BR> <BR>An uninterrupted 10,000 year history of egyptian civilization somehow is compatible with a worldwide flood on this flat planet with rain from the ocean on the other side of the dome which occurred 4,300 years ago? <BR> <BR>All us males with a vestigal uterus and vagina? <BR> <BR>A vestigal tail? <BR> <BR>That is classic delusional.
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Rave on oh purveyor of the TRUTH. Yeah right. You can't tell when cultural language is used, when analog or parables are used. You are hardly a TEXT CRITIC, But I personally would rather see you tackling the Text Critics on the thread created. Otherwise with no sources, I will consicer it your free will opinion. Sucks to be you, in a few decades, you Pastafarian.
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What a joke. Watch you 8 TV screen and your sitcome reruns. This stuff undocumented is a real hoot. Take a secular text critic class and retain the handouts, and spew forth. Got me hanging on every word. NOT <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0>
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<font color="0000ff">Watch you 8 TV screen and your sitcome reruns.</font> <BR> <BR>I don't have a TV in my office. <BR> <BR><font color="0000ff">This stuff undocumented is a real hoot.</font> <BR> <BR>I thought you took biology in college. Or maybe they don't teach about vestigial organs. Ya know, it doesn't quite fit into their theory handed down from the genocidal maniacs. <BR> <BR>If you dispute that you were once a girl, and have a vestigial vagina, then research it and give me some current scientific peer reviewed data on the subject. <BR> <BR><font color="0000ff"><i>Edited. -admin</i></font> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by admin on May 02, 2009)
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I'll help u get started on erasing a small speck of your ignorance. <BR> <BR>Research vagina masculina and uterus masculinus. <BR> <BR>Should help you understand the evoluti... marvelous magic of how God created a man, then created a woman from a rib, and somehow we end up with all males starting out as females. <BR> <BR>See, that would be a good place for a creationist to formulate an hypothesis, then test it. If Eve was created from a rib, if any sex changes are going to occur in the womb it should be from all being males to some becoming female. <BR> <BR>But NO. ALL start as females and some become males. <BR> <BR>Darn, another creationist opportunity to prove the genocidal maniacs correct gone swirling down the drain of falsehoods.
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and as additional proof of the mindset of God....She created females first!!! <BR> <BR>and if parthenogenesis were the story behind Jesus birth, He shudda been a woman. <BR> <BR>while we're at it, lets ask Bob to drop his accusation against Elaine, and check <BR>check his own index finger he keeps pointing at others. <BR> <BR>He should compare it to his ring finger.... <BR> <BR>if the ring finger is longer, then, when he started out as a female in the womb, he got enuf testosterone to change him into a male. <BR> <BR>if, otoh, (on both hands, actually!!), if his index and ring fingers are the SAME or similar length, he may not have gotton enuf testosterone in the womb to change him over completely from female to male, he might be gay!!! <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=finger+length+sexual+orientation&aq=7&oq=finger+length" target=_top>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=finger+length +sexual+orientation&aq=7&oq=finger+length</a> <BR> <BR>so until Bob drops his anti- Elaine signature line.... <BR>he might remember that when he points at another with his index finger, there are three fingers pointing back at him!!!
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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Are all you tSDAs read this stuff. I'm the only one challenging this nut job???? Renie, Cadge, Devon, no reaction. I'm truly disappointed. BTW, I lived in Canada since the year of my birth, 1951 until I started attending school at Andrews in 1971. I was a Canadian citizen. Sorry to disappoint you.
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My signature quote isn't anti-Elaine, just trying to get the truth that she has been silent about as I was being ridiculed by you about the same issue. At least Renie spoke up, John has spoken up about their status, I'm just trying to get Elaine to own up to, did she, or didn't she. If she did, she's one proud Mama, if she didn't, OMG, she went to all those secular text critcism class and hadn't even read the whole Bible. Neal, where is your fairness. Jump on this story!!!! <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/blush.gif" border=0>
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<b><font color="0000ff">what you have put in the place of the belief you are rejecting? </font></b> <BR> <BR>That's like saying that since I reject the tooth fairy I must put something in its place? <BR> <BR>I reject the story of Jonah and the whale as being an actual, literal truth. What substitution should be made to replace it? <BR> <BR>Or, that if I reject the once-believed idea of an Abominable Snowman that I must, of necessity, substitute something to replace that. <BR> <BR>Or, that, once having been married, it is a necessity to find another mate. <BR> <BR>Any belief that is irrational should be eliminated, not replaced. <BR> <BR>For someone who swears to believe that the Bible is the truth, the whole truth, so help me God, he is grossly limiting his ability to learn anything that has been discovered since the first century. Sometime, I fear that is the case.
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<b><font color="0000ff">As far as Don & Hubb's site? I have less than zero interest in a site that is censored. I am an American and hold dear the right of free speech.</font></b> <BR> <BR>It indicates a fear of free speech and that they can effectively only preach to the choir; only the amen corners are welcomed--no questions asked that could possibly disturb the saints, aka tSDA.
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Elaine, death is real and was conquered by Jesus, I believe that. Forget about the tooth fairy, what happens when you die, and what do you have to offer for that single hope that most Christians believe in and would probably ask you as I am what do you have to hold out for that moment of reconning in everyone's life, eh??? <BR> <BR>As far as Hubb and Don, if what you say is true, why has Spectrum, the liberal open, anything goes, banned me and built a wall to keep me out, same reason???? Eh, Elaine, who hasn't read the Bible from cover to cover. But lets others be ridicule about the issue.
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