On learning languages

heipauli · 01-09-09 8:59 am

"Sofi Oksanen (born January 7, 1977) is a popular contemporary writer in Finland. She was born in JyvÃ¤skylÃ¤, of Estonian heritage. She is a former dramaturgy student of the Finnish Theatre Academy.[1] Oksanen first became well-known for her novel Stalinin lehmÃ¤t ("Stalin's Cows") (2003).[2] It was nominated for the Runebergspriset.[3] Two years later, she released her second novel Baby Jane (2005).[4] Oksanenâ€™s first original play Puhdistus (â€Purgeâ€) was staged at the Finnish National Theater in 2007 out of the play grew Oksanenâ€™s third literary novel Puhdistus (2008).[5] It ranked nr. 1 on the bestseller list for fiction in Finland when it was published.[6] She was awarded the prestigious Finlandia Prize for her book Puhdistus in 2008." <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofi_Oksanen" target=_top>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofi_Oksanen</a> On her heritage: Father is a Finnish blue-collar electrician, mother an Estonian graduate engineer. Just today the news told her newest book keeps selling like hot cakes and the more established authors come far behind.

heipauli · 01-09-09 9:37 am

As many of you have noticed, there are marked differences between siblings re: difficulties in learning languages. My parents had 3 sons; everyone of us had different aptitude for languages available for us. (BTW, of the list I once presented in ATODAY, I forgot to mention Esperanto, an artificial, manmade language. The reason for forgetting was obviously the fact that Esparanto did not belong to curricula in Finland; another reason was the my brothers were not eager to study it. So I had no one to discuss with using Esperanto). But what are your reaction when I suggest that every one of us has aptitude for learning some languages and non-aptitudes for learning some other languages? An example: My firstborn daughter was excellent in her native language, i.e. Finnish. The same with Swedish, English and German. But in French she had so great difficulties that her teacher later told that her that she (i.e. the teacher) was sure that Maria would drop out of the French study group; but she persisted although it was a suffering for her and in a lesser degree for the teacher, too. Now some of you may insist that there were different circumstances involved. But actually there were not. The school was the same. The age was the same (German in grades 7 - 9, French in grades 7 - 8). Even the teacher for German and French was the same lady. Maria is not the only case of this kind I know. But what could be the explanations? In average children learn their native language in different countries in approximately the same age. Of course it could be that a slow learner born in France could have been a fast learner if born in Germany, bu I cannot imagine an easy was to scientifally exmine this issue. Maybe sometimes in future there could be gene tests and to worried parents the French doctor could tell that "This boy is a slow learner in French because his brains are actually wired for rapidly learning Garman. Maybe some German occupator during the WW2 could be the culprit, what do you think?"

heipauli · 01-09-09 10:54 am

There is a Finnish adage: "A bad [or evil] priests delivers sermons on himself". I.e. his sermons are self-centered. So I hesitate when considering writing of my own experiences. At any rate, in the tender age of 0 - 17 years or so I may have been what they call a slow learner. So while being in grades 6 - 7 I got remedial instruction in Swedish and German. Partially - but that cannot be the only explanation - it was due to the fact that I had just moved from a humble school to an elite one. So the other pupils in my class were ahead of me in those two languages. In grades 9 - 12 I had no difficulties whatsoever with languages (Swedish, German, English; admittedly the course in English was a short one, only grades 10 - 12, and as an Adventist PK I had some inherent benefits as regards English). Later on I have had short or longer encounters with some other languages (i.e. at least solemn New Year promises to study one or another language.) Most efforts have been on my own, i.e. by using a textbook, a dictionary, sometimes even some language tapes or TV-programs. Of those efforts languages like French, Russian, Italian, Spanish, Classical Greek, Estonian come first to my mind. There may have been other languages, too, but just now I do not remember them. In Italian I progressed best. Actually I have a certificate for Italian I-II; I passed them both at the same time. As the examination lasted only two hours, I declined to try Italian III at the same time. Actually the number of courses one wanted to get a certificate for was not limited, but there are natural limits on how fast one can write during 120 minutes. But according to my own experiences there are differences between languages re: how difficult a language is to learn if the learner is an adult. But why the list of "difficult" languages varies from person to person? That question leads us back to wiring of our brains. Language and thinking are inseparable. So a person having Swedish as his/her 1st language has - in average - a different kind of thinking than a person born to Finnish parents. There are studies on this subject. Many of them have been made just between Swedish and Finnish. In Finland there are two offial languages; the other one is Swedish and the other one is not ;-) What is painful for me to reveal, is the fact that there are advantages in belonging to the Swedish minority. They live longer and are happier than us belonging to the Finnish speaking majority. But even in an elementary level they think more or less differently than I. Their grasp of space (i.e. the 3 dimensions we live in) is different from ours. They - for example - put the foot into a shoe, while I keep putting my shoe into my foot. No kidding! So, I surmise that after all Maggie might be a fast learner of Finnish or some other exotic language.

heipauli · 01-09-09 11:14 am

Correction needed: I wrote "The age was the same (German in grades 7 - 9, French in grades 7 - 8). " It should have been: German in grades 10 - 12, French in grades 10 - 11. The error is partly due to haste, partly due to the different school system in 1950's vs. 1980's

george · 01-09-09 11:34 am

Pauli, That is an excellent point. People speaking different languages also have different thought processes. I think that's because all languages have expressions that are not exactly translatable from one language to another. This makes Bible reading interesting since, not only are we talking about the original language used in manuscripts, but also the translations in between. No wonder peace is impossible in this world. No one understands anybody else.

john8verse32 · 01-09-09 3:33 pm

No wonder peace is impossible in this world. No one understands anybody else. and the alleged reason for this which the writers of the Hebrew family biography would have us believe? Gen 11: the LORD said, "Indeed the people [are] one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. 7 "Come, let Us (us? the Gods are plural?) ... go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech." 8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city. 9 Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth; (Message edited by john8verse32 on January 10, 2009)

pilgrim99 · 01-09-09 11:39 pm

John said:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:us? the Gods are plural?)<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>That's pretty observant of you John. I believe that God is opening your eyes and enabling you to look more closely at His Word. At a fundamental level, 'us' could be similar to the royal 'we.' The very word elohim or elohiym as used in Genesis 1:1 implies plurality. Strongs 430 defines it as follows:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:1) (plural) a) rulers, judges b) divine ones c) angels d) gods 2) (plural intensive - singular meaning) a) god, goddess b) godlike one c) works or special possessions of God d) the (true) God e) God<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>The plurality of God is also described in:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Then God said, Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth.... Genesis 1:26 ....And the Lord God said, Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil, he must not be allowed to stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.... Genesis 3:22<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>Perhaps a copy of Strongs Exhaustive Concordance really would be helpful. Or maybe even a study of the doctrine of the <a href="http://www.bible.org/search.php?cx=002862574462228651213%3Awlwzhu5hnzm&cof=FORID%3A11&q=trinity" target=_top>Trinity.</a> Take your pick, there are many studies there, some are easier to read than others. God (plural) is one. Don't fall into the trap of thinking three god's. A simple way to avoid this trap, is to think one 'what,' three 'who's.' Sounds strange, but bear with me, please. You might want to become familiar with the concept of 'personhood,' if things seem hard to grasp. The correct understanding of most doctrines will not save you, but accepting the free gift, in exchange for your sins will. If you are interested, you can review the doctrine of<a href="http://www.bible.org/topic.php?topic_id=10" target=_top> Hamartiology (Sin)</a> This is a key doctrine in Orthodox Christianity. Without an understanding of our natural position and destiny, it is easy to miss, and devalue the critical importance of the gift, which is offered to us all freely. May God guide and keep you.

heipauli · 01-10-09 8:23 am

Actually I started this thread immediately after having read a short article printed in the weekly Suomen Lääkärilehti (which serves here the same purpose as JAMA in United States). The article told of those Finnish young people studying medicine in the university of Tartu (Tartto in Finnish, Dorpat in German) As most of you have no idea of European geography, please click the following link: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia" target=_top>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia</a> More on the city of Tartu (my dictionaries do not tell, what you call it in English; maybe Sirje could help us?) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia#Municipalities_and_cities" target=_top>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia#Municipalitie s_and_cities</a> Why go to Estonia in order to become a physician? Two reasons. 1) It is very cheap 2) The first 2½ years one can attend lectures etc given in English language. Thereafter one assumedly understands lectures given in Estonian language. The duration of studies is 6 years (the last 6 months consist of practicing all sorts of skills and tricks a GP assumedly can perform). That 6 mo period can be done in Finland, too. But back to geographical skills. Please, do not feel yourself embarrassed of your nonexistent knowledge on European geography! The fact is that although my generation already in the 3rd or 4th grade, myself included, had to know by heart all the rivers flowing from Finnish soil to the gulf of Bothnia, listed from the northest to the southest (and for the more ambitious the same as the regards the rivers of Sweden), and although we had to remember the six major rivers flowing into the Indian Ocean (I can still list them, but perhaps not in the correct order) very little - if anything - was demanded to know of American or African geography. Why so? I have my own ideas, but enough is enough, don't you agree?

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On learning languages

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