Torture, torment

bob_2 · 02-10-09 8:35 pm

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:We have before us, therefore, two teachings concerning God and His attitude toward sinful humanity. One, based on the Scriptures, declares that God is a God of justice, love and mercy, meting out the death penalty only to those who, by their rebellion and lawlessness, would jeopardise the happiness of others—and their own happiness if they were permitted to live. The other teaching, which had its origin in demon worship, declares that God is a merciless tyrant who tortures sinners throughout all eternity and who, as unending billions of years roll by, meets every plea for mercy or justice from the sinner with a diabolical sneer, “Burn on!” <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <a href="http://www.signsofthetimes.org.au/archives/2008/july/article3.shtm" target=_top>http://www.signsofthetimes.org.au/archives/2008/ju ly/article3.shtm</a> Here are other words that are synonomous with torture. affliction, agony, anguish, misery, pain, strait(s), torment, torture, tribulation, woe As you can see they do not indicate a gleefulness that Neal or Maggie would like to impose on God. There is evil in the world that will be punished and there are those that know they are deserving of punishment: Matthew 8: 28When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[d] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" Read John Gill on the text, and you will see demons, knowing they deserve punishment and are awaiting the day. <a href="http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/matthew/gill/matthew8.htm" target=_top>http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/matthew/gill/ma tthew8.htm</a> scroll down to the verse in question. Is water boarding torture, or an aggressive forum of inquistion or information gathering of those meaning to do innocents harm. You have to make some choices yourself. I won't label you, you don't label me. I believe God is a just God, is my final statement. I refuse to put my judgement above God's. Who am I, Who is Neal, Who is Maggie?

john8verse32 · 02-10-09 9:13 pm

why does the Good Book "torture" us with discrepancies? how many demon possessed guys were there? two? Matthew 8: 28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[d] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" } or just one? (CEV) Mark 5:1 Jesus and his disciples crossed Lake Galilee and came to shore near the town of Gerasa. 2 When he was getting out of the boat, ...a man (thats ONE guy, right?) with an evil spirit quickly ran to him 3 from the graveyard where he had been living. No one was able to tie the man up anymore, not even with a chain. 4 He had often been put in chains and leg irons, but he broke the chains and smashed the leg irons. No one could control him. 5 Night and day he was in the graveyard or on the hills, yelling and cutting himself with stones. 6 When the man saw Jesus in the distance, he ran up to him and knelt down. 7 He shouted, "Jesus, Son of God in heaven, what do you want with me? .. ..Promise me in God's name that you won't torture me!" again, only one: Luke 26 Jesus and his disciples sailed across Lake Galilee and came to shore near the town of Gerasa. 27 As Jesus was getting out of the boat, he was met by a man from that town. The man (thats one guy, right?) had demons in him. He had gone naked for a long time and no longer lived in a house, but in the graveyard. 28 The man saw Jesus and screamed. He knelt down in front of him and shouted, "Jesus, Son of God in heaven, what do you want with me? .. ...I beg you not to torture me!"}

bob_2 · 02-10-09 10:34 pm

Check out this parallel bible, and the synonomous words, torture, torment, cruel and afflict, all of which were the opinion of the demon knowing he deserved punishment of some kind, right? <a href="http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/mark/gill/mark5.htm" target=_top>http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/mark/gill/mark5 .htm</a> Read the discription John Gill gives of the man possessed before Christ even came on the scene. These are those that were thrown from heaven for going against God, and know their punishment is coming, but don't want it prematurely. Is what this demon is doing to this man torture, I would say yes, is what Jesus is reigning out torture, no but punishment for their sin in heaven. John Gill does a good job of explaining the fear these demons have, and with just cause. But it is not torture, and different words, like torment and affliction are used in various versions to demonstrate this, IMO.

maggie · 02-11-09 5:28 am

But it is not TORTURE, and different words, like TORMENT and affliction are used in various versions to demonstrate this, IMO.<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:torment 1. Great physical pain or mental anguish. 2. A source of harassment, annoyance, or pain. 3. The torture inflicted on prisoners under interrogation. <a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/torment" target="_blank">http://www.thefreedictionary.com/torment</a><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

maggie · 02-11-09 5:43 am

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Exodus 32: Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

maggie · 02-11-09 6:07 am

As you can see they do not indicate a GLEEFULNESS that Neal or Maggie would like to impose on God.<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:<table border=1><tr><td>New American Standard Bible</TD><TD>I will also laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your dread comes </TD></TR><TR><TD>GOD'S WORD® Translation</TD><TD>I will laugh at your calamity. I will make fun of you when panic strikes you </TD></TR><TR><TD>King James Bible</TD><TD>I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; </TD></TR><TR><TD>American King James Version</TD><TD>I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear comes; </TD></TR><TR><TD>American Standard Version</TD><TD>I also will laugh in the day of your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; </TD></TR><TR><TD>Bible in Basic English</TD><TD>So in the day of your trouble I will be laughing; I will make sport of your fear; </TD></TR><TR><TD>Douay-Rheims Bible</TD><TD>I also will laugh in your destruction, and will mock when that shall come to you which you feared. </TD></TR><TR><TD>Darby Bible Translation</TD><TD>I also will laugh in your calamity, I will mock when your fear cometh; </TD></TR><TR><TD>English Revised Version</TD><TD>I also will laugh in the day of your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; </TD></TR><TR><TD>Webster's Bible Translation</TD><TD>I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; </TD></TR><TR><TD>World English Bible</TD><TD>I also will laugh at your disaster. I will mock when calamity overtakes you; </TD></TR><TR><TD>Young's Literal Translation</TD><TD>I also in your calamity do laugh, I deride when your fear cometh</TD><TD></td></tr></table> <a href="%20http://bible.cc/proverbs/1-26.htm" target="_blank">http://bible.cc/proverbs/1-26.htm</a><!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

maggie · 02-11-09 12:12 pm

Will God burn me alive for believing God is too loving to burn people alive for not believing God burns people alive? <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/messages/13/505.gif" alt="blink">

bob_2 · 02-11-09 12:54 pm

You are naive to believe you can understand God's mind. Each of the texts above have a context. You ignore it at your peril, and I won't do your work for you. Mock away, receive the reward that comes ftom that. Truth has shifted for you over the years, I am sure it will again, but I'm not going your way, so study some more, see the context and a loving God, maybe eventually.

bob_2 · 02-11-09 1:04 pm

Always a context: <blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote: Proverbs 1: Warning Against Rejecting Wisdom 20 Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; 21 at the head of the noisy streets [c] she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech: 22 "How long will you simple ones [d] love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge? 23 If you had responded to my rebuke, I would have poured out my heart to you and made my thoughts known to you. 24 But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, 25 since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, 26 I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you- 27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you. 28 "Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me. 29 Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD, 30 since they would not accept my advice and spurned my rebuke, 31 they will eat the fruit of their ways and be filled with the fruit of their schemes. 32 For the waywardness of the simple will kill them, and the complacency of fools will destroy them; 33 but whoever listens to me will live in safety and be at ease, without fear of harm." <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Will He punish waywardness, advice not taken, sometimes it comes as natural consequences, somethimes it will come as legitimate angry and punishment, whether Maggie like the idea or not. Take your gamble, roll the dice. Mock an all powerful God along the way to all your friends. See what the outcome is, too late to reverse.

maggie · 02-11-09 7:22 pm

A God who plans to burn billions of people alive doesn't strike me as good company for eternity. But, in any case, I think those brutal archaic IDEAS have virtually nothing to do with God. They're just ideas, IMO. But I respect your right to believe any ideas that appeal to you. I don't see the appeal, but if you do, may you be blessed in your beliefs.

bob_2 · 02-11-09 9:35 pm

Well, if I had a man living next to me that buried my child alive after torturing her, I think disposing of that type, God's way sounds either about right or too good. <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/blush.gif" border=0> God will have a pure land, and it won't be a neat business as much as your sensitivities are violated, Sorry Baggie.

maggie · 02-11-09 11:38 pm

Dat's OK, Bib. Still fwiends.

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Torture, torment

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