Ethics: medical vs. clerical

heipauli · 02-20-09 3:30 pm

The current oath: "Physician’s Oath I swear, on my honour and conscience, that as a physician I shall strive to serve my fellow man and to respect humanity. My goals shall be to maintain and promote health, to prevent disease and to heal the ill and ease their pain. In my work I shall comply with medical ethics and only make use of treatments which have been proven useful by medical research or experience. When recommending a test or a treatment, I shall take the benefit and the possible harm to the patient equally into account. I shall continuously maintain a high level of professional competence and assess the quality of my work. I shall respect my colleagues and provide them with the help they request when treating patients. Where necessary, I shall encourage my patient to seek a second opinion. I shall respect the will of my patient. I shall keep secret all confidential information that I have been trusted with when treating my patients. I shall fulfil my duty as a physician to everyone without discrimination. I shall not, even under threat, use my skills against my professional ethics. " Source: <a href="http://www.laakariliitto.fi/e/ethics/oath.html" target=_top>http://www.laakariliitto.fi/e/ethics/oath.html</a>

heipauli · 02-21-09 1:20 pm

Hippocratic oath Quote: "Original, translated into English:[3] I swear by Apollo, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath. To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art. I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone. I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion. But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts. I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art. In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves. All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal. If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot." Source (and on more modern oaths): <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath" target=_top>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath</a>

heipauli · 02-21-09 1:29 pm

Quote: "I shall not, even under threat, use my skills against my professional ethics. " Thus far sounds very good. But what actually are the professional ethics? They have varied in various times and different countries. And an important question remains: What if one's oath is in conflict with other oaths (for example a military oath, a judge's oath, marital vow etc)? These are not artificial dilemmas. And what to do, if a physicians oath (or a solemn promise) is in conflict with one's promises/oaths made to God (either JC Yahveh or Islamic Allah or some other deity)?

heipauli · 02-21-09 1:41 pm

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates" target=_top>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates</a> Hippocratic oath dealt among other items even with the question of sex and doctor, but the current Finnish physician's oath does not take up the subject, except hinting at the direction of ethics. And as sex is a force to be reckoned with, for now and then a doctor has drifted to a situational ethic. In Finland perhaps the most known case was one of our most prominent psychiatrists, who - how it so happened - landed in the same bed with one of his patients, while he was so eager to comfort her by all possible means. I do not recall all the punishments he got for the mischief, but one was an absolute ban on treating any woman of any age. The ban lasted two years, I think.

heipauli · 02-21-09 1:47 pm

I do not know, if there is any ethical code of conduct for RC or Greek Orthodox priests, but here in Finland the Lutheran Clergy has its own ethical code. It is quite lengthy and in many ways indefinite. But one item has been stated very explicitely, namely: "One has to keep one's days off just in the appointed time". Left me wondering the motive behind that commandment.

heipauli · 02-21-09 1:49 pm

As far as I know, SDA clergy in Finland has no ethical code at all. If it has, it must be top secret. If I do err, I would like to read the code verbatim, even if it were 100 pages long.

don · 02-22-09 3:11 am

As far as I know, SDA clergy in Finland has no ethical code at all. I have found two SDA statements of ethics, so far:<blockquote><a href="http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/other_documents/other_doc11.html" target="_blank">Statement of Ethical Foundations for the General Conference and Its Employees</a>. At the end of the statement is this: <blockquote>This document was voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council Session in Silver Spring , Maryland , September 29, 1999 . The document was prefaced by a recommendation that world divisions adapt the Statement for use in the territories under their jurisdiction. </blockquote> </blockquote>and<blockquote><a href="https://www.aiias.edu/secure/policy/code_of_ethics.htm" target="_blank">THE CODE OF ETHICS FOR SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST EDUCATORS</a></blockquote>Other Adventist Ethical Connections<blockquote><a href="http://www.llu.edu/llu/bioethics/" target="_blank">Loma Linda University, Center for Christian Bioethics</a> The center publishes a periodical called, <a href="http://www.llu.edu/llu/bioethics/llethlib.html" target="_blank">Update</a>. The Loma Linda School of Religion offers a master's degree in <a href="http://www.llu.edu/llu/ethics/" target="_blank">Biomedical and Clinical Ethics</a> <a href="http://www.auss.info/auss_publication_file.php?pub_id=357&journal=1&type=pdf" target="_blank">Ethics, Chaos and Cosmos</a>, by Desmond Ford, (1963) (a pdf file) <a href="http://www.auss.info/auss_publication_file.php?pub_id=637&journal=1&type=pdf" target="_blank">The Bible's Role in Christian Ethics</a>, by John Brunt and Gerald Winslow. <a href="http://www.andrews.edu/academics/bulletin/2000-2001/sem/12world-mission.pdf" target="_blank">Andrews University Seminary Courses on Ethics</a><blockquote>PHILOSOPHY AND ETHICS THST550 (2-3) Principles of Christian Ethics<blockquote>Study of the basic moral guidelines and ethical principles contained in the Bible. Application of these guidelines and principles to contemporary moral issues of special interest for Seventh-day Adventists.</blockquote>THST600 (2-3) Christian Personal Ethics<blockquote>An application of Christian moral teachings to various personal issues and dilemmas with special emphasis on the moral habits and Christian character.</blockquote>THST634 (2-3) Christian Social Ethics<blockquote>An exploration of selected issues currently confronting the church, such as ethnic relations, the role of women, nationalism and liberation theology, poverty and hunger, and relations with civil governments.</blockquote>THST643 (2-3) Christian Professional Ethics<blockquote>An inquiry into the field of professional relations, dilemmas, and decision making within the context of Christian ethics. Emphasis on the identity, activity, and influence (witness) of a Christian professional, primarily in the caring professions. Identical to CHMN643.</blockquote>THST644 (2-3) Theological Ethics<blockquote>Discussion and application of biblical teachings and normative models to decision making and standards of Christian behavior in the context of praxis of ministry. THST550 strongly recommended (expected for MDiv students) prior to this course.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>

heipauli · 02-22-09 8:04 am

Don, I've been in the belief that the employees of SDA Finnish Union/Conference are not employees of General Conference? What is your definition? Are the SDA pastors around the globe employees of GC, or not? If not, does it mean that there is no accepted code of ethical conduct for the pastors of the denomination? And if there is no universal code for pastors, are you aware of any national code? Luckily there is code for educators, at least in USA. Obviously it has been helpful, as most sexual scandals in denomination I've am aware of have happened between pastors and their flock. The exception being that when the culprits have acted in educational environments, the educators have been of no help to minors. Rather they have acted like the priest and the Levite in Jesus' parable of Good Samaritan. Regrettably.

don · 02-22-09 3:14 pm

Are the SDA pastors around the globe employees of GC, or not? From the above quote:<blockquote>This document was voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council Session in Silver Spring , Maryland , September 29, 1999 . The document was prefaced by a recommendation that world divisions adapt the Statement for use in the territories under their jurisdiction. </blockquote>I conclude that the answer to your question is "No." There does exist a North American Division Policy Manual, and I presume for the other world divisions. In the absence of a brief statement of ethics, the policy manual would serve as the code of ethics. Here are a few more documents to examine:<blockquote><a href="http://circle.adventist.org/browse/resource.phtml?leaf=6886" target="_blank">Mid-America K-12 Employment Policy Manual</a> (Education) <a href="http://circle.adventist.org/browse/resource.phtml?leaf=1789" target="_blank">North Pacific Union Employment Policy Manual</a> (Education) <a href="http://www.mnsda.com/article.php?id=121" target="_blank">The Minnesota Conference</a> has published, online, its policy manual as a <a href="http://www.mnsda.com/site/1/docs/Policy_Manual_1999.doc" target="_blank">Word Document</a>. (Includes various ethical guidelines for pastors to follow.) <a href="https://web2.securelytransact.com/~pugetasc/site/1/docs/VOLUNTEER_BACKGROUND_SCREENING_PACKET.pdf" target="_blank">A Volunteer Background Information Screening Packet</a> (a pdf file) (Apparently an NAD document. It contains guidelines for how volunteers should relate to children.) Source: <a href="https://web2.securelytransact.com/~pugetasc/" target="_blank">Puget Sound Adventist Academy</a>. <a href="http://www.nadeducation.org/dynamic/files/437.pdf" target="_blank">The NAD Accounting Manual</a>, (a pdf file) (Another example of leadership in information availability provided by educators.)</blockquote>

heipauli · 02-22-09 3:27 pm

Someone I trust guessed that if there is any ethical code for Finnish SDA clergy, it must be in the "Policy file". But at least when I served in late 70's as a lay member in Western Finland Conference Board, the file was unaccessible for laity. So I understood. I did not resort to any violent methods (burglary a la Watergate), so I don't have the slighest idea, what was so secret about it. I do not know, whether my father, an ordained SDA minister, had ever seen that file. (He is deceased, so I cannot ask him anymore.)

elaine · 02-22-09 8:46 pm

Even as a child of an SDA pastor, I remember hearing that many problems were answered by the "policy" or else if something seemed questionable, it was "against policy." The "Policy Manual" was never accessible to laymen, so decisions couldn't be questioned. All quite secretive. The SDA denominational structure is very similar to the hierarchal organization of the Roman Catholic church.

bob_2 · 02-22-09 10:25 pm

Elaine, the SDA/RCC comparison is getting a little tired. Haven't seen too much bread and wine literally turned to tissue and blood or heirachy of the SDA Church claiming it does, they may have other faults but not that one. Jan Paulsen, I don't think claims to be Christ on this earth. But go ahead, make your simple silly comparisons. Come out of her my people, eh????<img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/angry.gif" border=0>

maggie · 02-22-09 10:31 pm

I'd like to see you disagree with someone when you actually understand what they're saying, Bob. That would be a nice change of pace....

bob_2 · 02-22-09 10:35 pm

Maggie, you may have to wait for awhile for that to happen with some of your posts. Over my head,not sure of others, but.....

bob_2 · 02-22-09 10:36 pm

Ryan, how is the "bickermeter" doing. We going in to the red zone yet.

maggie · 02-22-09 10:40 pm

Just a thought: wait to disagree until you understand what someone is saying. They'll let you know if you're not getting it. Believe them when they tell you you're not getting it. That will cut the "bickering" down to about zero.

bob_2 · 02-22-09 10:43 pm

Thanks for the advice, Maggie, [he shrugs with wonderment] <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0> Why aren't you watching the Oscars, if you've already decided about heaven.

maggie · 02-22-09 10:44 pm

I don't own a TV & couldn't care less about the Oscars.

bob_2 · 02-22-09 11:04 pm

That's the problem, you gotta loosin' up my Dear. Especially if you believe like Neal and his buddy Hitchens, that this life is all there is, or if God uses fire instead of a flood to purge the earth this time, you have thrown the towel in. Maggie, pssssst, it's not your choice, God is really, really, really BIG, but compassionate in how he doles out his punishment, whatever it is, I believe that about Him and who ever is punished will deserve it. See so I'm not fixated like you are on one aspect of God, that makes Him a complete God. You need to see the context and the whole picture. There are some wicked people out there, and I'm glad God is going to take care of them, not you and your 8 lb Oreck!!!<img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> In fact I'm glad some bunker buster bombs were dropped by W to take care of some of the wicked people like Obama is tracking down in the hills of Pakistan. Yeah, that's right, Obama is using a type of fire, to kill Osama, if he gets a chance, unless, you Maggie, can talk him out of it!!!<img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0>

maggie · 02-22-09 11:06 pm

Off topic. (Message edited by maggie on February 22, 2009)

bob_2 · 02-22-09 11:13 pm

Over and out!!!

elaine · 02-23-09 12:20 am

Bob, for someone who confuses the Eucharist with hierarchy, it's impossible to converse. Does anyone here understand Bob2 and his use of language? It's harder to understand than German. But maybe his language is lubricated with the favorite German brew. Isn't that what St. Louis is famous for?

bob_2 · 02-23-09 12:26 am

Doesn't the heirarchy say what a church believes about the Eucharist?? Or do the individual members get to say what they believe happens??? No beer here, you got some going down in Fresno?? Better ask your Doc at your age if that is a good idea. <img src="http://www.atomorrow.net/discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0>

maggie · 02-23-09 12:42 am

Bob, I have to agree with John and Elaine. Sometimes, frankly, I think you post drunk.

bob_2 · 02-23-09 1:17 am

Not tonight dear. But it takes a drunk poster to know one, eh???

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Ethics: medical vs. clerical

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