Is the U.S. a Christian nation?

elaine · 04-11-09 3:24 pm

Many consistently call the U.S. a Judeo-Christian nation. In so doing, they completely overlook this nation's history and the formation of its consitution and documents. The two documents upon which our contry was actually founded--i.e., the Declaration of Independence and the Consitution of the United States--contain not a single word about Christianity, Christian principles, the Bible or Jesus Christ. Neither is there any mention at all of the Ten Commandments, Heaven, H*ll, or being saved. Not a single word! The phrase "they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" was a reference to the Deist Creator, rather than the God of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson wrote in Autobiography that "millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined or imprisoned." He also wrote in a letter to John Adams "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." Benjamin Franklin said: "I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies." Witch burning and mandatory church affiliation, among other factors, led the Founding Fathers to establish a "Wall of Separation between Church and State." In 1797 the United States ratified the Treaty of Tripoli, which was negotiated by George Washington himself and signed by his successor, John Adams. The treaty declared that "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Congress unanimously approved the text of this treaty. The national motto was not changed to "In God We Trust" until 1956, 180 years after the founding of our nation. Likewise, the phrase "under God" was not added to the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954.

bob_2 · 04-11-09 5:09 pm

Look, if nations come against us that are religious/secular then our rule of separation of church and state has to be weighed. We can not tie our hands when individuals don't fight according to our constitution or the Geneva convention. I say we have to act in our own best interest to protect ourselves. We have a Deist background, Christian? That is more questionable, but we certainly had founders that believed in God, as our Creator, its in our founding papers. The Oath taken by those that are sworn to positions in our government should probably read "protect it against all enemies foreign and domestic, religion or secular, individual or governmental,", eh???? (Message edited by Bob_2 on April 11, 2009)

bob_2 · 04-11-09 5:21 pm

Elaine, as I recall, we respect a "separation of church and state" but it was not in official documents but a letter form one founder to someone. It shows intent, but not official position.

cadge · 04-16-09 8:33 pm

Here's where the idea sprung from: Roger Williams BiographyThe United States of America has maintained the reality of separation of church and state which Roger Williams envisioned, and ordained in his settlement at ... Link deleted by admin. (Message edited by admin on April 18, 2009)

bob_2 · 04-16-09 11:13 pm

Cadge, I may be wrong but I think your site has a virus, my system picked up something when I opened it, both times, before I realized it may be the source. You may want to check things out at your end.

cadge · 04-16-09 11:50 pm

I'm clear here, Bob. I checked the status on my program; nothing there. I ran a scan. That's O K too. Beats me. Thanks for the heads up anyhow.

neal · 04-17-09 12:03 am

Bob is correct. I run the full AVG on my system and the rogerwilliams site caused an immediate fullblown red alert from the AVG.

cadge · 04-17-09 10:19 am

I wonder why I got no alert. It does not appear that the site, nor I, have any infection through Kaspersky testing. I was going to download Google Chrome Browser, but I read that others with Kaspersky are having problems after they download it. I paid 80 smackers for the supposedly top shelf protection, and apparantly it's not as good a system as they boast if it can't pick up on what you guys are getting through AVG. Figures! Even though I am having no problems after being on the Roger Williams site for about fifteen minutes or so, I'm wondering if I sould switch over to AVG, or is it possible that you're getting a false alert?

neal · 04-17-09 10:27 am

Bob I have taken a post from above and will rewrite it from the point of an ALIEN. You wrote the post as if you were a citizen. THAT is what is inappropriate IMO. Here is your post:<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!>quote:Look, if nations come against us that are religious/secular then our rule of separation of church and state has to be weighed. We can not tie our hands when individuals don't fight according to our constitution or the Geneva convention. I say we have to act in our own best interest to protect ourselves. We have a Deist background, Christian? That is more questionable, but we certainly had founders that believed in God, as our Creator, its in our founding papers. The Oath taken by those that are sworn to positions in our government should probably read "protect it against all enemies foreign and domestic, religion or secular, individual or governmental,", eh????<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Here is how an ethical alien would have written it: <blockquote>Look, if nations come against <strike>us</strike> this country that are religious/secular then <strike>our</strike> the rule of separation of church and state has to be weighed. <strike>We</strike> You <strike>can</strike> should not tie <strike>our</strike> your hands when individuals don't fight according to <strike>our</strike> your constitution or the Geneva convention. I say <strike>we</strike> you have to act in <strike>our</strike> your own best interest to protect <strike>ourselves</strike> yourselves. <strike>We</strike> You have a Deist background, Christian? That is more questionable, but <strike>we</strike> you certainly had founders that believed in God, as our Creator, its in <strike>our</strike> your founding papers. The Oath taken by those that are sworn to positions in <strike>our</strike> your government should probably read "protect it against all enemies foreign and domestic, religion or secular, individual or governmental,", eh????</blockquote>

neal · 04-17-09 10:32 am

Even though I am having no problems after being on the Roger Williams site for about fifteen minutes or so, I'm wondering if I sould switch over to AVG, or is it possible that you're getting a false alert? Its possible I'm sure. I use AVG because our network manager that runs our servers to the exchanges etc has installed it at the company so I figured he uses the best because of our needing top security for our trading. That's why I bought it for my home set up. I was having infection problems using Macafee and have had zero problems since switching to AVG. Don't know what else to say. I am not an expert on computer security. I am just relying on the choice made by somebody that works for us that is an expert.

neal · 04-17-09 10:42 am

FYI Here is the message that AVG gives: Deleted by admin. (Message edited by admin on April 18, 2009)

bob_2 · 04-17-09 12:04 pm

TTTHTFAL, Neal until you start staying on topic and answering civilly or asking questions civilly, that are any of your business, I will either answer that way, which I think you are familar with, or not at all. It's been interesting responding to you, but it gets wearisome. TTTHTFAL [This is related to this post of yours, http://www.atomorrow.net/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=13&post=3997#POST3997 ] (Message edited by Bob_2 on April 17, 2009) (Message edited by Bob_2 on April 17, 2009)

bob_2 · 04-17-09 12:08 pm

Cadge, sometimes these viruses go really deep in your computer, the guy that cleaned mine when he installed, free, AVG, he had to do his cleaning in the SAFE MODE and it took hours. And boy did he pull the junk out, because I hadn't done it as deep as he went.

neal · 04-17-09 12:24 pm

Neal until you start staying on topic and answering civilly or asking questions civilly Anytime I come across you writing as if you are are citizen of this country I will call it out. If you want to talk from the point of view of a citizen go take your test. I have no difficulty with foreign nationals residing in this country complaining about whatever they want to complain about as long as terms like "your constitution", "your president", "your laws", "your military", etc are used and not our, we, my, etc. Be respectful of your host country and its citizens. Or is that to much to expect from you?

bob_2 · 04-17-09 12:33 pm

TTTHTFAL

cadge · 04-17-09 1:15 pm

Bob and Neal, I went back, out of curiosity, to the Williams site and got an alert this time!! I don't know why I didn't pick one up before. I ran scan also on my system again and Kaspersky found a trojan this time. I neutralized it and am clear now. That's puzzling. Anyhow, thanks guys, I'm switching. ----------------- P.S. Seems that if one pays the rent (taxes) he would have a right to complain about the maintainence of the structure he's dwelling in, but then again, what good is it if he has no power (vote) to make the landlord (gvt) fix it.

bob_2 · 04-17-09 1:35 pm

Agree with your P.S. David and glad you found that virus. They can be nasty. ATomorrow should have it's own portection, but short of that, you may want to delete that source, no offense, or quote from it, if you feel going back in, but delete it from ATomorrow so other posters, readers or lurkers don't get infected.

elaine · 04-17-09 4:06 pm

Praying for Theocracy in Okla. Last time we checked in on the Oklahoma legislature, some members were trying (unsuccessfully) to remove from the official record a session-opening prayer delivered by Rev. Scott H. Jones, pastor of Oklahoma City's Cathedral of Hope who happened to mention his "loving partner and fiance, Michael." No objection was made after a more recent opening-session prayer delivered by Rev. Wade Burleson, pastor of Enid's Emmanuel Baptist Church who happened to mention his disdain for atheists and secular humanists: "Let the secular humanists lead the socialists, let the atheists lead the totalitarian governmental regimes, but may only believers in God lead our democracy," Burleson said. I think they call that a theocracy. Burleson's prayer reminds me of a line from a song by Oklahoma native Garth Brooks: "Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers." In his prayerful remarks, Burleson singled out one atheist in particular, Dr. Richard Dawkins -- well-known evolutionary biologist, On Faith panelist and author of "The God Delusion" -- who had spoken earlier in the month at the University of Oklahoma. One Oklahoma legislator had tried to get his colleagues to adopt resolutions opposing the Dawkins invitation and condemning Dawkins and evolution. The resolutions never came to a vote, but afterward, Rep. Rebecca Hamilton began an investigation into the university's handling of the Dawkins invitation. Which reminds me of something another native Oklahoman, Will Rogers, once said: "About all I can say for the United States Senate is that it opens with a prayer and closes with an investigation." I've never understood why so many politicians feel the need to sponsor public prayers at non-religious public gatherings. Do they think God can only hear prayers spoken out loud in groups? Is their God hard of hearing? And why turn secular gatherings into sectarian proving grounds? Are they merely pandering for votes or do they think their particular religious beliefs should supercede the nonsectarian principles enshrined in the constitution?

elaine · 04-17-09 4:08 pm

Being a politician is the second oldest profession and they must work 24-7 for votes. Being a cult's preacher is the third oldest profession and they must work 24-7 to brainwash the flock. While the oldest profession is just for money - and they admit that- the second and third profession is also for big money, but they don't admit it.

bob_2 · 04-17-09 11:58 pm

Elaine, what's the most important thing to you: 1. To be a good citizen here on earth? Or 2. To be prepared to be saved for eternal life.

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Is the U.S. a Christian nation?

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